Ski Mountaineering

[fergal]

lads i'm just wondering would we be able to start a new activity in the club?

it has been a while since something new has been introduced and as far as i can see there is growing interest in the area of Ski mountaineering coming from within the club.

It seems to have the best of both worlds involved in it.

I'm just looking for feedback. It has come up at a Committee meeting. in my opinion it would be a great way of moving forward with the good bunch we have in at the moment.

robbie fenlon's talk last year seemed to have inspired a few people and he said he might come back some time this year to give another slide show.

Let us know what ye think,

Ferg

[mike]

I don't think it is a good idea.
The club has rock climbing, hill walking and mountaineering pretty well established.

Caving has been revived thanks to Cillian, and hopefully that can be sustained after Cillian graduates.
Orienteering is an aspect that needs to be improved.

As for ski mountaineering, it's not exactly the easiest thing to practise in Ireland. This leaves the winter break, but that is needed for the scotland trip.

Be careful of trying to do too many things at once. Better to increase training and independence of members than to spend money on something new.

[john]

I'm all for it. Tis a natural progression from alpine climbing. be a bit of craic as well, do a climb and take the easy way down

to counter mikes points, if we include a new activity in the clubs budget and ask for money, we might get even more money than we are getting now.

as for scotland, its goin to be totally unaffected cause ul now has all of january off and a week in march. seeing as scotland trips have now been changed to this week off in march something needs to be done in january and ski mountaineering sounds petty damn good to me......just my 2 cents

[mike]

good point john, but the problem is that there is only so much you can do in a week.
So if there is one ski mountaineering trip in a year, that is four in the average person's studies, a beginner won't learn much in 4 trips.

I don't see ski mountaineering as a natural progression, it is the combination of two skills, so if you can ski and you can climb then you will have a good ski mountaineering trip. If you can't ski, then the entire trip will be spent learning how to ski. You would be mad to go off piste as an absolute beginner.

Is there a skiing club on campus? a trip could be run with them.

the club's money is better spent on the 5 sports we have at the moment.

just my opinion

[barry]

My old landlady used to do loads, It ain't cheap, You need to be able to ski blacks backwards nearly and be proficent at winter alpine climbing which is a bit of a tall order.
Doing a bit of off piste touring is not ski mountaineering.
Would make more sense to run a ski trip.

[jihad]

skiing is an outdoor pursuit.
there is the risk that if we introduce a new sport that it will damage another. is there enough interest in the club as a whole?

a week of skiiing training is the only type of skiiing trip that the club could organise in the coming year. it would be costly as well.

maybe some sort of trial-course could take place over a weekend at the artifical ski-slope near dublin, or possibly a few days during the january break? there no point in organising a trip if there isn't enough interest, people should have enough interest to learn the basics in dublin before going abroad on club money.

[gaelan]

Canyoning is also brilliant fun, and is also a progression on the rope work learned form climbing and caving

i think if we were to spread our wings too far, some activities will suffer, i think the money would be better spent consolidating caving and orientating.
But if the interest is there for Ski mounteering, then who knows...

Also i think it is valid to say, even if you practiced skying in killternan(artificial ski slope in dublin), most of the ski trip would still be the basics.

Finally,sorry to be ranting, ive seen it in othere college clubs where a week snowboarding, ends up being a holiday.

G

[maeve]

If the Scotland trip is being downgraded from ten days in January to six or seven in March isn't that going to suffer also?
For obvious reasons the group going in March won't get the opportunity to complete as many hikes as those who have gone in January previous years.
I think taking on another club activity would be beyond us right now mainly because:
-It is looking likely that orienteering will die out the minute Sharon leaves UL as no one has shown any interest in taking over from her and although orienteering and the lack thereof is brought up at every meeting nothing is being done about it.

-and for all the good that Cillian and Gaelan have done over the past year for caving there hasn't been a lot of interest from new people willing to become cave leaders.
This is probably due to the amount of effort that has to be put into getting a BCL (basic cave leader) compared to how much effort one needs to put in to be allowed to belay on rock climbing trips or lead on hikes.

I think we're spreading ourselves thinnly enough as is.
Just because we have been voted best club for three years now does not mean we have to start a new activity, we can continue being great by simply improving on what we already have.

Maeve

[Paul]

The Scotland trip will take place on the 14th of March untill the 24th of March. Because Easter is in March it would be best suited as there will more likely be more snow. Also the days will be longer with more sun so the quality of the hikes will be better then the ones in January.

About Ski mountaineering its very interesting and I reckon it would be a big draw and interest allot of members and attract new members. Maybe have a wknd trip up in Dublin and then do training in January.

Did we get funding for a trip in January why dont we do a sample run and see how it goes???

[barry]

Kiltiernan is a fairly basic slope, bout €35 for 2 hours of frankly very basic teaching.
4 activities is a very wide spread.
Most Uni's have an orienteering club, a caving club and a mountaineering/climbing club.
many British uni's have a walking club, Moutaineering Club ski club etc
everyone knows that mtn biking is the way ahead.

[fergal]

Right lads this is gonna be a long post because there's a lot of points to address!!

You're dead right Mike ski mountaineering would be hard to practice in Ireland but so is mountaineering as a whole with a limited no. of areas thats with respect to Scotland, Wales, etc.

Why would there only be one trip in a year? We could go at least twice. We have trips planned in January, Easter and Summer this year, they all got funding! like there's alot of oppurtunity there to incorporate a bit of skiing.

Sadly mike there is no Ski club on campus. Should we set up a stand alone ski club?!

Fair enough a week snowboarding ends up in a holiday, that's obviously a badly run and organised trip and says something about the people that went rather then the activity involved.
Scotland is NOT being downgraded its being fitted in at a time that the conditions are at their best and we'll be going for 10 full days, I reckon that'll be a great aul trip with the van and everything. i can't see any reason why the group going in March won't be able to complete many more routes and climbs.
Right so are we saying that the club will lose an activity once sharon leaves? if there is no interest from the members how can we push an activity. there is real interest in Ski mountaineering. should we not give it the extra push?

4 activities is a very wide spread, can't argue with that. But when we have interest and people willing to put a bit of work in, we should be grand.

Ferg

[mike]

You can of course do mountaineering in ireland, of course there there is greater choice in scotland and the alps but we have some classic routes such as Howling Ridge.

Any UL trip (at least initially ) would not be a ski mountaineering trip, it would be a skiing trip. You have to recognise the distinction between piste skiing, snd ski touring and ski mountaineering. Ski mountaineering is not something you do as a novice!!

I think that you should concentrate on rock climbing, hillwalking caving and mountaineering.

If you want to go skiing and can fit into the budget, then that's fine, but don't call it ski mountaineering if all you will do is take beginners lessons.

From the BMC

Ability
To enjoy ski mountaineering, however, you do need to be fairly fit and you need to be able to ski. Skiing with a pack in deep crud calls for a certain amount of both strength and skill, and the more you have of each the more you can enjoy it. You can get by with one or the other. If you are very fit you can put up with frequent head-plants and the protracted performance of putting self and skis together again afterwards. If you are a good off-piste skier but unfit you may be able to hang on uphill and still cope with the downhill.
But you will have the most fun if you are both, and if you are neither, your holiday could be a disaster, not only for you, but also for the rest of the party who have to wait for you.

For climbers learning to ski, it is tempting to head off into the untracked snow straightaway, but it is well worth having some lessons and waiting until you feel confident that you can handle most pisted slopes, one way or another, and have had a go at some off-piste. Looking good matters not a jot, but knowing when not to fall over and being able to traverse, side-slip and kick-turn are important skills for getting out of trouble. It is wise to adopt a conservative approach to your skiing, too. The back of beyond is a bad place to break a leg.

[Paul]

I reckon there would be great interest in Ski Mountaineering. Like anything else people will start off as a novice but with the basic training they can improve. Start by learning to ski and if it is an annual trip they can progress.

[mike]

But how far can you progress in 4 annual trips?

[maeve]

Fine, my mistake on the Scotland trip but Fergal I think its unfair to say
"if there is no interest from the members how can we push an activity. there is real interest in Ski mountaineering. should we not give it the extra push?" with regards orienteering.

There's no interest in orienteering because people aren't given enough opportunity to try it out.
Why do you think so many are interested in climbing and hill-walking? Because they are being given the chance to do it almost EVERY weekend throughout the year.
When has there ever been a Sunday trip just dedicated to orienteering?
I know in my year as PRO I never once made an orienteering sign-up sheet.
The members hear about it through the emails but in the very same email we're telling them about this great hiking or climbing trip we have on Sunday and because they don't want to miss out on the 'craic' they choose not to try out orienteering for a change.

I'm with Mike on this one. Ski mountaineering cannot cater for beginners. It will only benefit the (far) more experienced members of the club.
If we lose orienteering we're losing an activity which can be so easily run all over Ireland, involving far more novices and far less money.

Maeve