Climbing wall usage

[mike]

I was talking with an ex student of UL the other day and we were discussing the climbing;in particular, the risk of the university refusing to replace our wall if they demolish it.

He made a few suggestions that should improve our case.
1: A sign in book. Everyone who uses the wall signs in writing their name, and whether they are student or not and whether they are a member of the club or not and whether they are climbing or not (important to know the amunt of people who actually climb rather than just looking). This way we will have definite numbers to show the university.

2: A survey carried out among all those who visit the wall. Including how much they would be willing to pay to use a proper facility. Would they like a coffee/snack bar. Important to know if visitors to the wall would actually climb if there was a proper, structured introduction session.

3; We could not expect top class facilities and not pay for them. So there would be one club night a week, the rest of the week we pay a student fee to use the wall. The members night would be structured as to have beginner-intermediate-advanced. For the first hour, the advanced members teach belaying and basic skills to beginners; route setting and more technical skills to the intermediate members.


Without establishing how many people use the wall (especially on a regular basis) we have no facts to back up presentations given to the college.

[mike]

I haven't seen any follow up on these issues!
What is the committee position, and has anything been done??

[coxy]

So what is the current status with the climbing wall future?

Who is the climbing wall officer on the committee??

Thanks
Frank

[Ciara]

K this is not an answer to coxyz question but just a general comment along the lines of this thread, I mite as well get this off my chest and now is as good a time as any...
1. yes jihad i know i havent ben at the wall since i got back but im goin to say this anyway.

2. one thing that annoys me about our wall id that it lacks structure, when u go to other walls the routes are marked out so well and it helps you to really get an idea of whether you are progressin what your level is, what you should be aiming for e.t.c. all it takes is colour coded routes

3. A lot of Erasmus/new students on coming to the wall expect more guidance, actual lessons and look for a instructor and not a supervisor and I really think that this is worth lookin into. I mean i find that a trip to the UL wall can be somewhat unproductive for a beginner to intermediate in comparison with other walls ive been to.

I know that my opinion is tainted by my lack of dedication to the wall and the fact that i dont go there like i used to but I still think its a valid point. I'd prefer if the wall had more of a teaching side to it instead of just lettin people who have no idea what there doin stand round confused and getting frustrated coz they dont know what to do.

[coxy]

I think that Ciara bring up some really important points that each need to be addressed. I know that I am not around these days but here is my opinion and a few questions.

The setting of routes in a climbing wall is so important and is a vitial part of the forward motion of every climbing wall. At present in the wall that I climb in here, the routes (lead and bouldering) are changed every 2 months or less. This gives people time to work the work and get it or not get it. Then the route is stripped and a new route goes up. I know that I am looking at wall were people are employed to do this work but this wall is also 2.5 times the height and about 8 times the size of our wall.

The point I am trying to make is that the setting of routes is what keeps people interested. The problem that occurs some times is that people who climb at a high standard will see there own problems and then beginners have no chance of getting on these problems because the level is jsut to high. So when setting routes, 60+% need to be at a beginners level and if is easier to set easy routes than to set hard routes.

Before I left, with the help of others, I got a routes board set up in the climbing wall with loads of different problems. That system worked very well and helped a lot of people to push forward and gave poeple something to aim for in the next grade. What has happened to the board. Has it been up dated??

What should happen is that the board should be wiped clean and all the tape should be taken off the climbing wall. Then one night should be set aside were everyone sets two routes through the wall. Then you go and label the route and write it up on the board. It is in the best interest of all climbers to set a route. Even if you are a beginner, set a route because this will be a route for someone who has climbed less that you. The key is that everyone has to do it! The important thing is that you don't grade the routes . There are people who can grade then for you and they would be happy to do it cos it will be like a training sesion for them (John Harrison, Mike Rynne, Finbarr Desmond, Tom Earle or Eoin Fitz) or anyone else. It is really hard to grade your own routes. Get some one else. Once this is done, and the board has all the routes written up, jsut go and climb then!!!

As for instruction, having set routes allows poeple to help others. Once a person knows the way to do the route, you can all help each other. The problem is that when you do no have routes set it is all jsut random for beginners. So get the routes set and then start helping each other and working the routes. That is the key to making the climbing wall better and more progessive with respect to instruction.

So who is the climbing wall officer? If they need advice, I am always around!

Just my views!
Frank

[mike]

The route board is still there, some new routes have been set, however quite a few of the old routes are still on the board and many are missing tape, so yes, this needs to be updated.

Instruction is offered to anyone who asks for it. Personally, I am not going to go out of my way to ask everyone at the wall if they want help. I have given informal training to some who seem really interested. It is the job of the climbing wall officer to organise this and to ask myself and others to help beginners. Maybe a technique session from 6 to 7 could be organised, I have not been approached about this.

The current climbing wall officer doesn't appear to be doing a whole lot at the moment, though she is arranging for the mat to be repaired . (I'm not on the committee so all I can comment on is what I have experienced.)
The points I mentioned in the first post were (so I was told) brought up at meetings and apparently action was decided on, but nothing seems to have happened!!

[jihad]

right so.........
i heard that there is a climbing wall confirmed for the new arena extention. thats all i heard so don't ask me for more details.

carolyn is the wall officer and i don't think she uses the message board mike so i'd suggest you voice your opinions to her in person. (PS the ripped mat should be fixed this weekend and should be back by monday)

a sign-in book was left down at the wall 2 weeks ago and promptly disappeared. i'll bring a new one down tonight.

do yoiu want to carry out that survey mike and maybe give something back to the club? nobaodys going to stop you

ciara, there are routes at the wall (not as many as the board might suggest as some have not been maintained) there aren't a hugh amount of beginner routes as the routes that are being used often are the ones that the regulars use and they tend to be at a higher standard.


i have to say that ANYONE can set a route and should try to do so. i agree with frank that someone else shouyld grade it (except for mike rynne of couse!)


on the erasmus/new students: when i supervised i would always approach new people and explain the rules and tell them to ask me if they want to see some routes or techniques. i think you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, i.e. if they are interested they will keep coming and keep learning and be shown more by people who are there. you cannot be expected to spoon-feed people all the time. that said i think supervisors could do more than just belay and watch: they should teach people to belay, show them rope-skills and climbing techniques aswell.

[mike]

do yoiu want to carry out that survey mike and maybe give something back to the club? nobaodys going to stop you

I was a member of the committee for four years, I think I've done enough for the club in that respect.

It is the responsibility of the committee to organise things and to ask for assistance from those not on the committee if extra help is required.

Slightly off topic, the committee currently has 20 members (+/- a couple). This is bretty big and in my experience makes decision making a little unwieldy. Meetings might be more productive if the committee was split into sub-committees. (a separate committee responsible for the wall for example). If things are progressing smoothly and efficiently then that's fine, but just a suggestion.

[barry]

The best way to get routes set and maintained properly is to pay someone.

Too many people expect everything to be done for them, I'm afraid this goes for alot of razzies and this will not happen in life.

The best way to progress in climbing and life is to do it yourself, no one's going to come up to YOU and ask YOU if YOU want a job, Dpn;t depend on others to ask YOU if YOU wanna go climbing.

Hi Ciara how are you ?

just to point out that the walls in Dublin that have routes charges anything from €8-€15 for a single entry, you can't expect miarcles for nothing !

the Killarney wall is cheap and has top rope routes but they only change them every 10 years.

I still can't see the tags in UCD and I'm going there 5 years.
I will be moving back to Lmk in late May and I will try to get down and lend a hand.

All the best and enjoy the mystery tour !

[mike]

hi Barry, are you moving with Irish Aid when they decentralise??

I'm applying for a position in the foreign affairs department, (3rd secretary) and if I get it, will probably be working in Irish Aid

[barry]

yep that's the plan, good luck with it, I'll be back cranking down the wall again soon.

[barry]

It is the job of the climbing wall officer to organise this

is it ?

seems to me this climbing wall post has alot attached to it.

Slightly off topic, the committee currently has 20 members (+/- a couple). This is bretty big and in my experience makes decision making a little unwieldy. Meetings might be more productive if the committee was split into sub-committees. (a separate committee responsible for the wall for example). If things are progressing smoothly and efficiently then that's fine, but jSlightly off topic, the committee currently has 20 members (+/- a couple). This is bretty big and in my experience makes decision making a little unwieldy. Meetings might be more productive if the committee was split into sub-committees. (a separate committee responsible for the wall for example). If things are progressing smoothly and efficiently then that's fine, bSlightly off topic, the committee currently has 20 members (+/- a couple). This is bretty big and in my experience makes decision making a little unwieldy. Meetings might be more productive if the committee was split into sub-committees. (a separate committee responsible for the wall for example). If things are progressing smoothly and efficiently then that's fine, but just a suggestion. ut just a suggestion. just a suggestion.

I find it's the implementation stage that's hardest, a few people g can generally generate consensus.

If there's nothing worse than a disorderly committe then it's one or two people wanting to have everything done at thier bidding and behest.

Normally (in way back ago) the Supervisors would set routes when the place was a bit quieter

as for the no's and the petitioning just make them if ye have to ;D

anyway enjoy it guys ye have the world at your feet !

[annacro]

Heya Everyone,

I never put a post up on a message board before but there is a first time for everything, I have to agree with Ciara with having set routes on the wall and getting a bit of structure to the wall. I believe it will get interest up in the wall and climbing in general in the club and to increase the number of active members, and to encourage people to keep coming down. The money is there as far as I know to actually pay someone a fair amount of money to give up there weekend to set routes for the wall. There is people out there, well I reckon anyway, that would set routes and do a good job as well. Ideally try though and get someone that doesn’t use UL Wall and that way everyone will benefit the beginners to the experienced.

Here would be my suggestion:

Pay two/ three people to set routes at the start of every semester, set two routes per section. I reckon the wall would divide into fifteen sections. So that would be thirty routes. (The reason for the two or three people would be so you could get a good variety of styles) But I am sure other people would have a better idea of how many routes could be fitted on each section (maybe 3 routes). And it might take two weekends; you would have to ask people like Frank or Harr about things like that. Bit Clueless when it comes to things like that.

Have the wall completely stripped for the route setters before they arrive, Have all the grips divided into colours for them.

Pay the route setters well, so you can expect a good job and be clear to the route setters exactly what you want.

I suppose I just think it is time to try something new with the wall , a new approach and if it doesn’t work , it doesn’t work, we can try something different next time.

And I totally understand that it probably isn’t the best time to suggest this and it might be best for next year and if you are going to have the wall for another year then I do think it is worth it. But if it were done before the summer then it would be ready for everyone starting in September, which would be class. So I suppose that is probably the best place to start………. will you have the wall for another year…?

P.S. I know how easy it is for me to say this from up here in Dublin, and not having to do any of the hard work and just make suggestions. I totally know that it is the easy part. But if you do decide to give this a go, If you gave me the budget you would be willing to spend on this, I would do my very best to find two or three people to route set for the wall.

Oh and those who know more about this kind of thing it would be deadly if you could tell us what kind of obstacles were going to meet and if it is actually possible…………

So sorry for the bad grammar, poxy spelling, and waffly message. I really hope this makes sense.
Anna

[mike]

Just making suggestions but I think I've perhaps come across a little demanding in my posts. That is not my intention.
The motivation behind setting up the message board was to try and encourage debate. At least this time it is climbing related


When I say it is the wall officer's job, what I mean is that the wall officer is the one who attends meetings, sets out what is to be done (preferably after some form of consultation with climbers) and then sets the conditions for this.
So for example, if the grips need to be rotated they will make it public, ask for volunteers and provide an incentive for people to help. Nothing more complicated that picking a day, put up a poster at the wall, contacting as many regular climbers as possible (1 group email) and then ordering some pizzas.

Better to have a group of interested people doing things as agreed by a tight committee than a bloated committee where few have a specific job.

These are just my opinions, and possible suggestions after talking to climbers at the wall.

[barry]

it's good to talk about core activities like this, and get people thinking about them, there is a lot of expertise knocming around too.....