Post by Darragh K on Apr 19, 2010 23:58:34 GMT
So Ill add my two cents to this for what it is worth.
We are all very well aware of the knowledge and capabilities of people in this club, that is a given. There is nothing stopping you going out with a senior member and learning how to place gear, set up anchors and even do your first few lead climbs.
However, you cant forget that the club is an entity that has safety standards to impose. Anyone who has ever dealt with anything in the SU with regard to clubs, will know that health and safety is always to the fore. (Remember the way we were questioned about the bridge swing in keitho's hust?)
Its like this;
Case A: Say I go out with colm and he teaches me to lead climb. I lead a climb, get to the top and set up my anchors, but Im a little unsure how to do it now, I do what seems right and tell colm to climb, he is on belay. Colm falls and he pulls me out of my belay station and we both get seriously injured. Who is responsible? Firstly, Colm, despite having a great knowledge of leading, is not qualified to teach others. therefore he is partly responsible. Secondly the club is responsible for giving me and colm the gear to do that. We would be seriously reprimanded by the SU if this was to happen.
Case B: I go out with colm after doing learning to lead, and the exact same thing happens, again im unsure of the top belay system and we both fal off, getting seriously injured. Now who is responsible? Colm? No. I had received formal training by qualified people and was just out climbing with a friend when it happened, it was an accident. Club? No, for the same reason. The insurance co. or SU will just see that the relevant training was provided, then they will look into the course providers syllabus and then it can be deemed an accident, before that it is negligence.
And that is the bottom line. I know the learn to lead course was not of great quality this year, and that is something that I will address next year. What I proposed to Ross i think it was, on the way home, if we have everybody up to a certain standard i.e. able to belay, no the principle behind anchor systems, no all the rope work and have done a few second climbs before they go forward for the course. Then we can go to our guide next year and say these guys no x, y and z and are proficient at it, can you please put the emphasis of your course on placing gear and all the more intricate parts of the lead course.
Hopefully we will have former club members who we can employ to do the learn to lead course next year. If not, I think we will go back to the people who the club used to get previously.
I know I learned loads more in Dunsheen than I did at the learn to lead course but still there were lots of things that i noticed learn to lead helped with. Like I knew when my gear was bomber or shite and I knew how to set up anchor systems etc. It made learning at dunsheen more enjoyable because there was no uncertainty in the back of my mind, as i was taught by professionals. If I was just taught by friends, however competent, I would always have that bit of doubt that something was glossed over or something forgotten about, but maybe thats a personal thing.
We are all very well aware of the knowledge and capabilities of people in this club, that is a given. There is nothing stopping you going out with a senior member and learning how to place gear, set up anchors and even do your first few lead climbs.
However, you cant forget that the club is an entity that has safety standards to impose. Anyone who has ever dealt with anything in the SU with regard to clubs, will know that health and safety is always to the fore. (Remember the way we were questioned about the bridge swing in keitho's hust?)
Its like this;
Case A: Say I go out with colm and he teaches me to lead climb. I lead a climb, get to the top and set up my anchors, but Im a little unsure how to do it now, I do what seems right and tell colm to climb, he is on belay. Colm falls and he pulls me out of my belay station and we both get seriously injured. Who is responsible? Firstly, Colm, despite having a great knowledge of leading, is not qualified to teach others. therefore he is partly responsible. Secondly the club is responsible for giving me and colm the gear to do that. We would be seriously reprimanded by the SU if this was to happen.
Case B: I go out with colm after doing learning to lead, and the exact same thing happens, again im unsure of the top belay system and we both fal off, getting seriously injured. Now who is responsible? Colm? No. I had received formal training by qualified people and was just out climbing with a friend when it happened, it was an accident. Club? No, for the same reason. The insurance co. or SU will just see that the relevant training was provided, then they will look into the course providers syllabus and then it can be deemed an accident, before that it is negligence.
And that is the bottom line. I know the learn to lead course was not of great quality this year, and that is something that I will address next year. What I proposed to Ross i think it was, on the way home, if we have everybody up to a certain standard i.e. able to belay, no the principle behind anchor systems, no all the rope work and have done a few second climbs before they go forward for the course. Then we can go to our guide next year and say these guys no x, y and z and are proficient at it, can you please put the emphasis of your course on placing gear and all the more intricate parts of the lead course.
Hopefully we will have former club members who we can employ to do the learn to lead course next year. If not, I think we will go back to the people who the club used to get previously.
I know I learned loads more in Dunsheen than I did at the learn to lead course but still there were lots of things that i noticed learn to lead helped with. Like I knew when my gear was bomber or shite and I knew how to set up anchor systems etc. It made learning at dunsheen more enjoyable because there was no uncertainty in the back of my mind, as i was taught by professionals. If I was just taught by friends, however competent, I would always have that bit of doubt that something was glossed over or something forgotten about, but maybe thats a personal thing.