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Post by thecolm on Mar 22, 2010 10:09:05 GMT
Since ye are going this weekend i would suggest that the people who essentially will be leading it sit down for half an hour and run over everything just to be clear. As much detail as possible should be given to the people going, it just works easier. Run over what? The general plan like? Who exactly is leading this thing anyway? With regars detail, (as a driver) I still dont know... 1.when we are leaving 2.when we are coming back 3.has the ferry been booked 4.do we have maps 5.do we have guide books 6.how much gear are we short 7.how many ab ropes do we have 8.does everyone have prissik cords 9.has everyone been shown how to use said prussik cords Are these things known and its just the case that the mail hasnt been sent yet and communication is terrible, or is it the case that the whole thing is in total chaos and no one knows anything?
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Post by Darragh K on Mar 22, 2010 10:25:25 GMT
As we speak we are meeting with Darragh C to book the ferry and sort out everything, everything will be finalised by the end of today.
As regards a meeting, Darragh held one last week with most of the climbers who are going, attending. So I think a good email should suffice, which again, we will try and send out this evening, early tomorrow morning.
There was confusion over the past week with people going/not going. We have bank drafts here ready to go its just a matter of finalising the details with Darragh.
As regards maps, what we did in Scotland was print off printouts off google maps. If you want maps then the simplest thing to do is split the cost, or else buy them yourself and keep them in your car when the trip is over. Ill have to check with ginge to see if their is a possibility the club can cover the costs of road maps.
As regards guide books, you can download them as stated earlier, or the club can subsidise 1 guidebook for the pembroke area, but the guidebook will remain property of the OPC and must be given back with all the other gear to the gear officer.
You will be bringing all the club climbing gear with you, which is something like 2.5 racks...Fearghal will be able to give you a more accurate gear inventory. You have to make do with what you have going.
Not everyone will have prussik cords going, but im sure you can stop off at an outdoor shop on your first day so people can get gear.
You have people on the trip who have very little experience of climbing indoors, let alone outdoors, their ability to use a prussik will be the least of your worries. Set up bottom belay systems for them and keep checking on them, moving routes for them every so often, you have to cater for everyone, its a club trip.
Just to add guys, make sure ye look after the receipts when you get them for fuel etc so the club can write whoever a cheque for them. No receipt, no cheque, simple as. I suggest a ziplock bag or something and write whoever paid on the receipt.
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Post by woodsy on Mar 22, 2010 10:48:35 GMT
trust me the ziplock bag is the way to go.. If it is all to be sorted by this evening there's nothing outstanding..
Many of the people going i understand might not know how to belay. Therefore setting up a top belay system, using prussik and possibly having to ascend if they cant climb is not something i would consider doing for at least a few days. A crag where everything they do is transparent and you can easily monitor their belaying etc should be a given.. While the advancement and enjoyment of each persons climbing is an objective it is expected that the experienced guys will lend a hand to the beginners and each person is happy on the trip
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Post by thecolm on Mar 22, 2010 10:57:53 GMT
Hey Darragh, Thanks for the comment. Good to know whats going on. A guide book from the club would be great. As I said ages ago its over 200 pages long (If I remember correctly) so its a bit crazy to go printing off many of these. You have people on the trip who have very little experience of climbing indoors, let alone outdoors, their ability to use a prussik will be the least of your worries. Set up bottom belay systems for them and keep checking on them, moving routes for them every so often, you have to cater for everyone, its a club trip. I think ability to prussik is massively important. Easy to teach at wall but less so at crag and as this place has alot of sea routes it is the ONLY way of getting out of trouble if you get stuck. If ye can I'd have every1 at least shown what to do this week before the trip. Cant stress how important I think his is. With regards checking on them and such, climbing a route can take over two hours (and maybe we'll be trying some multipitch )so they're will be times when they will need to know what to do for themselves. Bottom belays may be a bit impractical if its a sea cliff and there is also the issue of having enough static rope (again, I'm not sure what the story is with these but I'm thinking we may only have 2 or 3 lengths for setting up top ropes) and setting up from above may be a better option. It theres gonna be alot of top roping the club may seriously want to consider buying some rope protectors. I'd imagine they're pretty cheap and the alternative is replacing a fuck load of ropes... there was a new one that got ruined last year somehow.
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Post by thecolm on Mar 22, 2010 11:32:25 GMT
Many of the people going i understand might not know how to belay. Therefore setting up a top belay system, using prussik and possibly having to ascend if they cant climb is not something i would consider doing for at least a few days. A crag where everything they do is transparent and you can easily monitor their belaying etc should be a given.. While the advancement and enjoyment of each persons climbing is an objective it is expected that the experienced guys will lend a hand to the beginners and each person is happy on the trip I would hope it was also expected that everyone would be able to belay. Pretty sure there were some sort of requirments set out at the start as there was for the previous sport trips. There's only two or three of us who have lead before I think and 'monitoring' 10 people wouldnt leave much room for our own enjoyment. Personally, I feel like I've done a fair bit in taking the time to try teach Mitch and Darragh (there was nothing stopping the rest form joining them) the basics of leading and would feel hard done by if I was unable to get much done because others felt is was ok to sign up for this without making the effort to prepare themselves. We've had excellet weather lately and there's no reason that everyone going couldnt already have some easy leads under their belt. I'm not saying I wont be helping others but what I am saying is that I will not be trying to teach all of belaying, gear placement, leading, rope work and anchor systems to people who should have learned all this ages ago after taking time off work to get out to this amazing part of wales. No comment on this forum is going to change that so if you've a problem with if I suggest you get down to the wall and take some time to teach people now. Colm
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Post by woodsy on Mar 22, 2010 12:09:58 GMT
Nor would it be required.. It wasnt always a requirement that everyone knew how to do these things. It was hoped for but we adapted and everyone came home knowing how to belay, gear, bit of abseiling and sport leading. It was all covered really quickly. I would only hope that those who dont know how to belay can be taught and there are more than enough.
There are more than you who are experienced 4 or 5 with lots of belay experience who will be able to show the younger guys.. I dont know if all the guys were invited on the burren trips or whatever but regardless the first day could teach alot of lads all they need to know. They arent gonna come back leading E5 or setting up anchors but just having enjoyed the trip which is very simple for anyone to help and just unselfishly devote a bit of time to teaching them..
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Post by Ginge on Mar 22, 2010 12:22:30 GMT
Ok everything that was listed Darragh pretty much covered. At the meeting Tony in fact put together the mailing list and i *thought* sent the e-mail or else left it for Darragh C to do.
In terms of communication, again I was unaware of a lack of it. Is it that difficult to pick up a phone and ring someone?
Now we don't want the experienced climbers to be hindered here. But do not forget, each and every one of us was in their position once upon a time and alot of people who have now left the club gave us our training and helped us out a lot. This has to continue on if the club is to continue to develop.
All those going, should know how to belay, after the meeting they were actually brought down to the wall to either ensure they were able, or to teach them how.
As far as I am aware, 2 people have bought guidebooks, therefore the club does not need to buy one and if extra things are needed to can most likely be printed in the area, perhaps at the hostel.
Everything will be finalised today, I'm sure you can accept that not everything goes according to plan, and things need to be fixed, we are sorting that now.
The club has been very busy the last few weeks, along with each and every committee member, between hustings, training, meetings, the c+s ball, charity events,. We know what needs to be done and we'll get it done. Last minute changes to people going on the trip also happened, which effected everything pretty drastically.
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barry
hillwalker
so much rock-so little time......
Posts: 132
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Post by barry on Mar 22, 2010 14:04:58 GMT
It theres gonna be alot of top roping the club may seriously want to consider buying some rope protectors.
YOU WILL NEED rope protectors for your abseil ropes, highly likely a rope will shred in the first 3 days without them especially at Saddle Head, re prusik loops-I never visitied a gear shop when I was over there so I don't know if there's 1 there.
I'd say the Giltar Point area is as non stress as Pembroke gets.
Saddle Head is a compact enough area with a wave cut platfrom and is in a horseshoe shape which should allow for better visibility between groups.
The Bow shaped slab area down by Flimstone Bay has a fine slab with 3 40 M HS's ripe for top toping, not essential but best to synchorise with low tide etc tho.
If I was a beginner, top roping up to VS and 'finding my way on the rock' it would porbably take me 3 days of top roping and resting to top rope the 13 (8 or so are corners) odd lines and so wear out the crag.
Bosherton village has a T room by the name of Ma Westons, no breaksfast rolls here but you'll get some beans on toast and the like.
If you walk down by the Lily ponds to the sea from the same village there's an extensive beach to go for a dip in-chill out-read a book on.
E1 must do's include strait gate on Mother Carey's and the Arrow on St Govan's.
Bon Voyage !
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Post by thecolm on Mar 22, 2010 15:31:16 GMT
Thanks Barry any suggestions on where to buy rope protectors? Oh any plans for trips later in the year yourself??
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Post by harr on Mar 22, 2010 15:47:18 GMT
If anyone wants Prussic loops let me know and i can make them up in the shop and bring them to the wall with me. its €4.80 for two 7mm prussic loops (recommended diameter by Beal) or €3.45 for two 6mm prussic loops.
Rope protectors can be anything you want, rucksack, old coat or sacking, or a rope bag. Just important to prevent the rope from rubbing on a sharp edge. I would recommend you bring the walkie talkies as well for the drive down, save on roaming bills and will help with communication at the crag. might as well use them if you have them.
Barry mentioned some great spots for beginners and experienced alike. spend the first day showing how to set up top ropes and place anchors, then just keep an eye on things over the week to make sure its all been done right. some places just have metal spikes at the top so might make things easier.
I would also try and set up (for want of a better word) a Buddie system early on so like minded people of similar capability get to climb together and ask for advice or travel to different crags with more experienced pairs. avoid a hand holding system where everything is set up and then the less experienced are just left to their own devices. Fear of falling usually encourages the less experienced to at least get someone to check their anchors before embarking on a route. If not then make it a rule that each pair sets up their own anchors and then gets them checked before top roping or abing into a route. This will all help to make people more self sufficient as the week goes on.
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barry
hillwalker
so much rock-so little time......
Posts: 132
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Post by barry on Mar 22, 2010 15:50:56 GMT
I suppose the usuals needle sports, rock n run etc
presume the Yorkshire bound folk are taking the caving ones away with them...
or u could just make them urself, some industrial rubber, an old car mat or carpet and prusik to hold it in place 2.
I'm away with some of the Jordanstown graduates in May, We've charteredd a sailing boat, crew and are bound for some climbing on some of the uninhabitated islands that make up the Outer Hebridies archipelago in Scotland.
I'll let you know how it goes ;D
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Post by Féar ghal on Mar 24, 2010 15:20:45 GMT
Just might want to remind you guys that a list of whatever gear has to be brought better be brought to me soon as tomorrows my cut-off date.I could be heading off home friday morning so its the last chance for stuff.I havent been contacted about racks,ropes,rock shoes(is there a list of peoples individual sizes,aka the people who dont own their pair?)or anything else.Just a reminder there as times running out.
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Post by thecolm on Mar 24, 2010 16:25:29 GMT
Hey, guessin ur the gear officer. Could you mail me @ 0751383@studentmail.ul.ie and I'll help make sure nothing crucial if forgotten. Thanks
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