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Post by thecolm on Aug 16, 2010 8:02:01 GMT
Whats the story with access to the wall outside of the usual 7-10 hours during this coming semester. Does the club have keys or are we going to be let in by the guy at the desk? Is that piece of string back? Can it come back? Or should I start carrying a clothes hanger with my climbing shoes? ;D
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Post by cillian on Aug 16, 2010 9:09:07 GMT
the Club has given a guarantee to the sports department that no body will be climbing outside of the designated climbing times 7-10pm monday, tuesday and thursday....
when extra training time was being discuseed last semester the committee view was that the use of the 6-7pm slot should be initiated...but we are not intitled or supposed to use the wall with the permission of both the PESS and Sports departments before 6.00pm any day.
therefore the club has three keys and unless one of the three officers with those keys opens the door it should not be open apart from the 7-10pm slot ... that is unless there is official club training with prior permission been granted from the Departments in question...
the string was removed permantently by Neasa and the use of any other means is not allowed... and is not supported by the club as our guarantee was only the three key holders are permitted to open the door on the clubs behalf...
Is Mise Le Meas Cillian
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Post by thecolm on Aug 16, 2010 10:46:46 GMT
but we are not intitled or supposed to use the wall with the permission of both the PESS and Sports departments before 6.00pm any day. Cillian Did you mean without the permision? So from 6 to the 10 the club can use the wall, but it will only be open 7-10 unless a key holder opens it early for a particular reason (i.e. extra training) and use of the wall earlier in the day requires special permission? Does I follow correctly?
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Post by cillian on Aug 17, 2010 15:55:21 GMT
excuse the typo above... yes we have the ability to use the wall from 6pm onwards but only from 6 to 7 when something is officially scheduled e.g route setting, training, gear organising that kind of stuff.... if its being used for more climbing a supervisor would be required on site too...
it really comes down to time constraints and the plans of the climbing officer, wall officer, gear officer etc
anything Earlier in the day is only with the permission or by the request of the sports department... it was stated at the time we were given the keys that they would prefer limited or no climbing before 6pm as its an academic building.
hope that clarifys things... if there was a training schedule presented that gave a full detail of the benifits and justifications for extra wall time prepared by thoose who want it and presented to the committee then there would be a much stronger case for opening different times...
the suggestion that was made before was see how the extra hour could be used and then move in the future from there...
something like a training schedule for newbies and what they would be thought...iam sure Harr would have some good ideas after the course in UCC....
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Post by thecolm on Aug 17, 2010 17:37:27 GMT
Ah great thanks for clarifying. You said the club can use the wall from 6 as long as something is offically scheduled. I take it you mean scheduled within the club? So if a supervisor is present and a key holder willing to open the doors at 6 would there be any issue with opening the wall for the purpose of simply climbing? Would much notice need to be given to the committee or would it be easy enough to make it a regular thing? With regards climbing outside the 6-10 slot, I'd be interested in trying to get in once a week at say day mid-day. However I'd rather repersent myself in this matter. Could you give me the contact details of those who would need to sign off on it (PESS and Sports departments as menmtioned above)? Thanks
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Mitch
hilltalker
Posts: 55
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Post by Mitch on Aug 18, 2010 0:58:56 GMT
What's the story with the building on Wednesdays actually, given it's generally considered a half day by most people?
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Post by cillian on Aug 18, 2010 9:40:40 GMT
the issue is and will remain that the PESS building is an academic building until at least 6 o clock each day... ( they hve been trying to extend this) also they do not consider wednesday to be a half day... its not official on timetables and SAA (Student Services) would tell you the same thing.
As ginge and any one of the officers of the club will testify to when it comes to negotiating anything on behalf of the club it has to come from the president/committee... the two departments do not like having to deal with individuals separately and in fact prefer having a singular point of contact with all clubs. therefore any desire to open the wall more etc would have to be passed to the climbing and/or wall officer and then the committee would bring it to the PESS and Sports departments...
as it is a club facility for club members its not simply a case of looking for an individual concession... if there is a valid reason for opening more than 12 hours a week for club members ( 4 hours three nigths ) then it needs to be articulated and put forward through the committee.
we were given keys after a drawn out process on condition that we would abide by their rules.... it was a commitment that we have to live up to
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Post by thecolm on Aug 18, 2010 11:23:01 GMT
I'm not looking to negotiate anything on behalf of the club. If there's say 5 or 6 people who would be interested in training at the wall at a set time every wednesday afternoon they should have the chance to articulate themselves rather than being represented by someone from the committee that isnt really too bothered about the subject. The 'vaild reason' you mentioned is that it is desired by a group of students. I'd like to get a few names together and be allowed make our own case. We'd be doing so on behalf of ourselves, not the club, and I fail to see any issue with this approach.
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Post by cillian on Aug 18, 2010 11:39:53 GMT
the wall officer and the climbing officers are the ones most responsible in getting climbing reform ... i would imagine that climbing is a subject that they would be particularly 'bothered' about. they should have all the details of what you are looking for and bring it to the committee table. as its their mandate effectively.... if you are not happy to deal with these alone then you are welcome to bring your case directly to the committee...
the committee has the responsibility for running the entire club therefore they have an interest in all outcomes which help/hinder the clubs running process... the wall is a club facility so its use if outside the normal functions of the club are its responsibility
The wall is not currently being used for more than three hours a night even though the option is there for a fourth. when no efforts are being made to use the time available fully (6-10pm )it weakens the case to expand it further. permission will only be granted by the departments where a clear plan of action is presented to both the Sports dept/ PESS department. I have had plenty of encounters with both over the last 6 years and am very familiar with the politics involved...
as its an academic building during the day clubs and socities are not supposed to be training without explicit permission....its the situation.... two years ago we were told they did not really want us climbing during the day at all ....there are many offices and workshops in the vacinity of the wall these are part of the problem...
if you remember we also had a prolonged period where we were completely locked out of the wall.... this is what the club must avoid in the future so thus we must comply to the people in charge of the building that the wall is in.... we have no He who shall not be named given rigth to access its not a C+S building...
our presence and climbers climbing in the builing is always noticed, some people were climbing out of hours in the past and this caused security to report the issue to both the Sports and PESS department ... this more than annoyed them and we were told if a group is not scheduled or known to be in there then they are technically not insured... ( UL rules) this is why Neasa removed the cord and why the club have been warned to ban people from climbing outside of designated training times.....
for climbing to take place a club climbing supervisor is also needed ( and a supervisor is not supposed to be actively climbing when supervising)
its a lot of info but its something that has been long running.... ;D
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Post by harr on Aug 18, 2010 11:39:56 GMT
Perhaps if you used a more structured approach to gaining access to the wall you might have more success. In this I mean identify certain goals you want to attain, for example identify the different competitions on throughout the year, the National lead comp, IBL and Intervarsity and National Bouldering champs. Point out the difficulty of training during normal hours, how the wall is needed to provide an introduction to new members and old who are not interested or in a position to enter the comps, and the normal three days a week don’t allow for structured training due to the limited amount of wall space. Put together a training programme that targets the various events (even if you have no intention of following one). Present all this to the relevant persons and wait and see.
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Post by Darragh K on Aug 18, 2010 11:58:26 GMT
Hey Colm,
This very issue was already brought to the committee by Darragh C at the end of the last semester.
As Cillian has highlighted, there are lots of issues with opening the wall during the day. Im not going to repeat them here.
What was agreed at the last meeting was we would start off by opening the wall from 6pm on one or two evenings a week. Then, as Harr stated, we would do up a proposal in order to gain more access to the wall. Its one step at a time, you just cant barge in and demand the wall be open 24/7 for us, especially with our history in the PESS building!
One of the biggest problems is supervisers. We dont have enough. Last semester some people had to supervise twice a week, which isnt entirely fair. Everyone has college work and a life outside the OPC. So if you want the wall open during the day, then some people are going to have to step up to the plate and supervise every now and again.
Long story short, I want to see the wall open for competition climbers outside of normal hours for training purposes, but due to many factors this will take time and patience.
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Post by thecolm on Aug 18, 2010 12:16:02 GMT
Hey Darragh I'm well aware of Darragh efforts to date and appreciate his efforts. I also know that he felt hindered by the attitudes of some of the other committee members and no longer has any desire to be a part of said committee. As far as supervision is concerned, what I am proposing would mostly cater for club members who are supervisors so it wont be an issue. I'm not demanding 24/7 access, simply requesting a training slot for a small group of climbers who go to national comps and represent the college at the IVs. Harr summed up my planned approach to this, but as I said, as a small group we're better represented by ourselves as we'd be more driven to get things done
Colm
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Post by cillian on Aug 18, 2010 13:21:00 GMT
the suggestion made above about using a hanger to gain access to the wall painted a different picture and were not helpful initially...
the limitations that are in existence were fully explained to Darragh last semester and we explained what was necessary to get the wall open more...and we all discussed and gave ideas of what migth help and work...a plan with aims, objectives and proposed outcomes and benifits to the OPC is needed...
as i said already
this is what needs to be done to build a working relationship and have solid evidence and justification to get access during the day if possible. it takes time and effort and needs to be brougth forward in steps by those who have a clear idea of what they want... the oportunity is there effort is just required..
if its club development it has my full support
I am sorry to hear Darragh has no desire to be involved at this stage especially given all the support he was given in his efforts in the organising of the Wales trip at easter....
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Post by thecolm on Aug 18, 2010 13:37:21 GMT
the suggestion made above about using a hanger to gain access to the wall painted a different picture and were not helpful initially... Sorry, I guess I should have put the word 'Joke' in brackets or something. Thought the smiley faced conveyed the tone of my words sufficently but apparently not. (Mocking)
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Post by mucmacdog on Aug 18, 2010 18:22:07 GMT
This proves colm's the most dangerous, unsafe and rogue-ishly sexy climber in the OPC. Can you imagine what this "menace to society" might do to the OPC's reputation.(Joke) He who shall not be named forbid the OPC will ever mount a challenge to any other club during the IVs or IBLs The only way around this is a simple descent into a most bloody, gore filled, revolution in which the climbers break away from the tyranny of the OPC (joke) Just to make it clear....THIS IS A JOKE...well except that the OPC sucks at climbing!
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